Crooks and Stewart, Ardclinis

Discussion in 'Main Forum' started by causeway, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. causeway

    causeway New Member

    Victoria Crooks born 1827 married Henry Stewart of Lemnalary at St Mary Ardclinis on 1st March 1858.

    Victoria's parents were Patrick (or possibly John) Crooks and Martha kennedy.

    Pat Crooks of Lennalary is listed in the 1828 tithe applotment. Could that be Victoria's father or grandfather?
    No Stewarts listed, so did they move in later and if so where from?

    The family subsequently moved to Kintyre.

    Can anyone help with further information about the Ardclinis connection?
  2. Elwyn

    Elwyn Member

    The 1858 marriage certificate should give you Victoria’s townland (address) and her father's name and occupation. What does it say? That information should help identify the correct Crooks family.
  3. causeway

    causeway New Member

    That is a good suggestion. Searching in Northern Ireland is new to me. Do I need a paper certificate, or would I be able to obtain it using GRONI s online search certificate?

    There is a John Crooks of Lemnary (or something like it) in the hearth tax, so it is worth pursuing further to see if there is a link. Not sure quite how to do this.
  4. Elwyn

    Elwyn Member

    You don’t need a paper certificate. You can view the certificate on-line using the GRONI site. It should cost £2.50 (sterling). Post the details here and I’ll see if I can help you a bit further.

    There’s not much you can really do with the Hearth Tax information. It simply tells you that someone (normally head of household) lived in that townland and paid the Hearth Tax. Useful if you already knew your family lived there, but there’s no additional information in the Hearth Tax records to be obtained.
  5. causeway

    causeway New Member

    Match 1, 1858

    Henry Stewart age 24, labourer residence: Lemnelary father William Stewart labourer
    Victoria Crooks 31 Lemnelary father Patrick Crooks weaver

    Samuel Crooks (Victoria's brother I think) was a witness. The other signature I am still working on.
  6. Elwyn

    Elwyn Member

    The tithe applotment records only list people with land of a size worth taxing. So most were farmers and cottiers (small farmers). Some weavers had a little land but not always. Most labourers would have just a perch or two to grow vegetables. Normally not enough to get listed in the tithes.

    So the Stewart family may well have been in the townland at the time of the tithes but just not listed.

    Griffiths Valuation for 1861 lists 2 Crooks properties in Lemnalary. One was James Crooks who had plot 2 which was a 5 acre farm. So he was a cottier, a small farmer/weaver. The other was Margaret Crooks who had plot 7b which was a labourers house on William Rogers land. Margaret was probably a widow.

    No Stewarts listed in the townland at that time.

    Margaret’s name remains against plot 7a till around 1893. Possibly she died then. James Crooks name remains against plot 2 until at least 1920, though there are no Crooks there in the 1901 or 1911 censuses, so presumably it had been sublet but that had not been picked up by Griffiths clerks.

    I searched for deaths for Patrick & Martha Crooks post 1864 (when death registration started) but did not find them, so suspect both had died before that date. The James on plot 2 might have been their son. Pat Crooks in the tithes is likely to have been related. He could well have been Victoria’s father. (In the 1901 census there were only 13 houses in the townland so it wasn’t a big place).

    There aren’t really many sources in Ireland to get back earlier than you are. Most Irish research stops around the 1800 barrier. The families might be in the Antrim Estate records at PRONI. (records of tenants start around 1820).

    Going back a couple of hundred years, many of the occupants of the Glens of Antrim arrived there from the McDonnell/MacDonald estates in Scotland. Many originated in Islay, Jura, Kintyre and adjacent areas and moved to north Antrim when the McDonnells acquired land there in the 1500s. They were a mix of RC and Presbyterians.
  7. causeway

    causeway New Member

    Thank you very much indeed for researching this.

    Victoria's father Patrick Crooks must take us back to somewhere around 1800 given her age in 1858.
    A mystery why he is 'John' on Victoria's death certificate; possibly the informant got it wrong?

    Our McLean line also goes from Kintyre to Ireland, but so far I have no indication of a place for them, and unless the spelling is helpful they may remain lost, although with new records appearing online something may come to light. Quite likely their origins also are as you suggest...unless, of course, they came to Ireland much earlier.

    Thank you again for your help.

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